Blogger Ethics

Joe the Plumber fucked a goat!

Or not. Look, I have no interest in Joe the Plumber personally and I have less than zero desire for information about his private life. I agree with Scott and My Baby Blue here. His marital status and divorce records really have no bearing on anything, for example, and whoever reported that stuff is kind of a dick.

But that said, there is I think a legitimate question about how accurate he is on the specific grounds upon which he decided to challenge Obama face-to-face. He depicted himself as an Everyman who would be hurt by Obama's tax proposals. He made a specific claim about his economic status and ambitions, relative to what a candidate for president was saying. To that extent he made his own personal economic position fair game -- he brought it up, and clearly intended to put Obama on the spot in that confrontation through this kind of personalization. "Here is me, you don't get me."

There is, after all, a legitimate political and policy issue here. Will Obama's tax proposals, if enacted, do harm to actual or potential small business owners?

The fact that "Joe" was full of shit about this particular point is therefore relevant. And here are the relevant data:

In 2009 about 35 million tax returns will report some income from small businesses, according to Roberton Williams, principal research associate at the non-partisan Tax Policy Center. Of these only about 660,000 tax units — or 1.9 percent — would see an increase under Senator Obama’s tax proposal.

I don't really think you need to go much past that, frankly. This is a person who wants to go on wingnut media as the champion of an entire class of people who will be disadvantaged by a policy proposal, but the inescaple point is that even taking him at his word he would represent 1.6% of a relatively small slice of the entire middle class of Americans. That he wants to babble about "socialism" when the real issue is merely jiggering with the tax code is gravy. Carazy gravy, but gravy.

The distinction here between "Joe" and the Frost family, by the way, is that "Joe" made representations about his hypothetical economic position, while the Frosts cited their actual position. In doubting Joe, you are doubting a hypothetical. In doubting the Frosts, you were accusing them of fraud. Not the same thing.

Comments

[Righteous Bubba]

Joe the Plumber fucked a goat!

This was the initial impression, but in fact he was fucking a rare albino tsessebe, imported at great expense from Zimbabwe.

[John O]

You two must be some sort of miracle match, like one of those extremely rare elderly couples one occasionally sees walking through the park or gardens looking at each other as if it was the first time they'd ever met.

I often describe marriage as a comfortable state of "resigned tolerance," and everyone I know is married, evidently "happily," as best I can tell (not ever being married), including my parents for around 50 years.

Not that any of that matters. I just want to thank you both for the laughs and smarts. I sincerely appreciate both.

And I have searched like it was the Holy Grail for MoDo's e-mail so I can send Molly's beautiful and eloquent eviscerations, to no avail.

I can only try.

This post made me laugh really hard, too.

All you need to know in the end, really, is that JoeTP is now more publicly accessible than Sarah Palin, which when you think about it does not paint McCain or the GOP in a real flattering light.

Or even if you don't think about it, but just know it.

I really appreciate the work of both of you. It isn't all that hard to get a handle on the decency of a person or persons when you read what they have written about things that matter every day.

Thank you.

All the best to you both, and those you love,

J

[actor212]

but the inescaple point is that even taking him at his word he would represent 1.6% of a relatively small slice of the entire middle class of Americans.

Even you bought into the KoolAid, Thers.

Since when has $250,000 a year EVER been "middle class"????

[SteveB]

The distinction here between "Joe" and the Frost family, by the way, is that "Joe" made representations about his hypothetical economic position, while the Frosts cited their actual position. In doubting Joe, you are doubting a hypothetical. In doubting the Frosts, you were accusing them of fraud. Not the same thing.

So is this what we have to look forward to for the next four (and probably eight) years? "No, what we're doing now is nothing like what they did then. Although there may appear to be some similarities, my close analysis shows the two situations are really quite different."

What percentage of your brain cells do you plan to use in this effort?

[Thers]

So is this what we have to look forward to for the next four (and probably eight) years? "No, what we're doing now is nothing like what they did then. Although there may appear to be some similarities, my close analysis shows the two situations are really quite different."

Bite me, SteveB. The guy said something in public that on its face sounds unreasonable. Then a presidential candidate made this unreasonable assertion out like his case is typical of middle class Americans. It is fair -- indeed important - to point out that even accepting the guy's numbers, he's not even remotely typical. And I said -- you can read it above -- that apart from that nobody should investigate the guy's life. Stop being a self-righteous douche.

[Davis]

If Joe is discouraged from buying the business because his top marginal rate would increase from 35% to 39%, he's an idiot.

I would like to know why there have been no instances of a Democrat getting that close to McCain to ask a question.

[bcf]

Joe is more likely discouraged from buying the business because of the $2 to $3 million starting price tag it would take to buy a business actually netting $250,000 annually.

If he's paying any less than that (which he's not of course, i'm just playing along), the owner is lying to him how much the business is making.

[SteveB]

Bite me, SteveB.

No thanks. Look, you have an objective - that your guy should win - and Joe the Plumber is making himself inconvenient, so he must be stepped on. Just like the Frost family was inconvenient to Dear Leader's plan to veto childrens' health insurance, and had to be stepped on. Of course you have a rationale for why your behavior isn't anthing like Michelle Malkin's, who would expect otherwise?

Does Joe the Plumber deserve what he's getting now? Of course he does. Anyone who dips a toe into the sewer of American politics deserves to get typhus.

Take a second to look at the big picture: you have two parties that really only represent economic elites, who have no use for working people except as stage props; you have the props themselves, who are always willing partisans eager to be used in this humliating fashion; and then you have other partisans who run up on the stage to hammer at the props with their fists ("Hey, look everyone! This door doesn't really go into the garden! It just opens on to a brick wall behind it!)

And the best part is that every four our eight or twelve years, everyone gets to switch sides. You don't think that clever rationalizations for all of President Obama's power grabs will soon be crafted by the same folks who decried all of Bush's power grabs? Do you think that your behavior here as anything to do with that? No, of course it doesn't, and I'm sure you can explain why.

I'm not claiming to be above it all. I can't be, since I have to share this planet with a pack or crazed political partisans. Too bad for me, too bad for the planet.

[Jemand von Niemand]

The Frosts were a family subjected to life under a microscope -- at the instigation of the political and religious Right -- and what they had said about their circumstances viz. S-CHIP were true and accurate.

What became clear in the 'media investigation' of the Frosts was that the American political Right is a loathsome piece of trash. It was Drudge's world in high gear -- a world the mainstream corporate media fully and enthusiastically participates in.

Plumber Joe appears part of a political stunt in advance of the last Presidential debate, meant to expose the awful truth of the falsity of Obama's secret angry black scary redistribute wealth from white people tax plan.

However, Joe made representations about his circumstances in his exchange with Obama which were found to be not entirely accurate. As for his marital status or tax exposure-- no one gives two fucks whether Joe and Mickey Kaus are goat-blowing buddies. How is that relevant to a discussion of a national tax policy?

Anything reported about Plumber Joe not relevant to the exchange with Obama is simply Onanistic journalism -- the circle jerk of talking-head suits-and-haircuts that pass for Town Criers in America. But while Joe's come under media scruitny, he and his family has not been subjected to the excruciating level of demonization which the Frosts experienced.

The corporate media have proven themselves little more than entertainers, in service to pass the lies of the Right along when told to do so. But the usual Wingnut septic tanks like Drudge and Fox are relatively quiet about Joe -- which says something.

For Cod's sake; let's talk about the issues.

[Thers]

Take a second to look at my balls, Steve.

[Tehanu]

If SteveB objects to "close analysis," I suggest he read some other blog written by somebody who -- unlike Thers -- doesn't bother with, you know, actually thinking about the issues and the concepts behind them. Drudge comes forcibly to mind as the appropriate pile of BS. I read this blog because Thers and Molly can actually think straight and write clearly about what's really going on, and SteveB can bite me too.

[SteveB]

If SteveB objects to "close analysis,"

Sometimes close analysis is worthwhile, sometimes it's just an attempt to excuse behavior by your friends that you'd object to in others. I made an observation about what I thought I saw going on here, and I didn't ask anyone to "bite me" while I was doing it.

Bye...

[Jemand von Niemand]

Bye...

Sweet Cod; if we were only so fortunate.

[skippy]

we are all joe the plumber...

[Thers]

A remark like "What percentage of your brain cells do you plan to use in this effort?" will be responded to with "bite me" pretty consistently.

[Susan of Texas]

Concern troll is concerned.

Fortunately SteveB's above all this.Except for these posts scolding liberals, of course. But no doubt SteveB also scolds Roger Ailes (the evil one) and Rupert Murdoch for their disappointly partisan rhetoric. Perhaps he even shakes a fist at the sky and says, "Damn you, partisan political process!"

[rea]

Thing is, most of the negative stuff was picked up by the guy's home town newspaper, from interviews with the guy himself and a check of public records:

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081016/NEWS09/810160418

If you can't see the difference between that and the stalking/peering through windows to which the Frost family was subjected, you don't have very good vision.

[actor212]

You don't think that clever rationalizations for all of President Obama's power grabs will soon be crafted by the same folks who decried all of Bush's power grabs? Do you think that your behavior here as anything to do with that? No, of course it doesn't, and I'm sure you can explain why.

First, I was unaware that anyone had stalked Joe Plumber and peeked at his countertops and determined that they could not have been bought by someone saving for a business.

No, anything that;s been written about him has been a matter of public record. Did he deserve it? As Thers points out, to an extent.

Now, to SteveB's larger point: Yes, it's true, the Republicans and Democrats are just tangential sides of the same coin (to warp a metaphor). The difference is, the Democrats SEEM to be more responsive to pressure from their grass roots, whereas Republicans command attention from the top down.

The flip was true just twenty years ago, I should include.

So what do we do about it?

For me, I'm going to hold Obama's feet to the fires. This may paint me as a hopelessly out of touch DINO, I suppose, but that's OK. I have liberal progressive credentials out the ass to throw up in people's faces, let them rant.

I also have liberal, progressive principles and an agenda to defend. That means more to me than what some bloggers and commenters think.

I'm sure Thers and Molly will speak up when Obama fucks up (obligatory "fuck" in the thread).

[Dan]

just 1 more item-seems joe the plumber doesn't have a license for plumbing work and no he is not covered by his boss. I do believe that misrepresenting your credentials is relevant.
So take that SteveB. jerk

[RJ]

Again, you're a piece of shit commie. Joe the Plumber didn't challenge the beyond-reproach Obamessiah. He was approached by Obama and a camera crew and was concerned that his hard work might not pay off. I know, working hard to advance yourself in life is so alien and unamerican... I know you liberals and middlepeople like to think that everybody is in the same boat as you, stuck in a dead end job, feels like Bush is stopping you from making VP, but it's really your own inherent laziness and refusal to work hard to obtain your own advancement. That is the terminal problem of liberals, they don't think destiny is in their own hands - especially minority liberals. They like to think somebody is always keeping them down. It's called "you're fucking lazy and stupid."