That Would Suit You Fine, I Realize

by Molly Ivors

See, this is why I no longer listen to Keith Olbermann. And that's too bad, really. But this is fucking bullshit.

He should be ashamed of himself. And so should anyone who countenances this kind of argument, male or female.

Comments

[Me]

Said Olbermann: "Right. Somebody who can take her into a room and only he comes out."

Poorly chosen metaphor, to be sure. But the way he says it in the clip, it's pretty much just a quick aside, said almost without thinking. The cable talkers are always throwing around these sports/boxing metaphors ("Obama has to prove he can take a punch!"). I totally agree with the more general misogyny argument, but this one's pretty low on the outrage scale, IMO.

[Molly Ivors]

it's pretty much just a quick aside, said almost without thinking.

Sure it is.

[winfernal]

I don't know that my issues with Olbemann are identical with yours, but I've started watching him less and less. To me he's little more than the Alan Colmes of MSNBC, a nominal "leftist" who functions as a counterpoint to the overly right slant of the network, the easing out of rabid righty Tucker Carlson notwithstanding. His Worst Persons in the World used to be amusing, but now it's just a pretext for his ongoing bitch fight with Bill O'Reilly. And I've often wondered why this segment has never featured the likes of Tweety Matthews or Tim Russert, the Heckyl and Jeckyl of twisted talking points, who have more than qualified for the distinction many times over. Could it be that the same corporate hand (let's not forget that the MS in MSNBC is not manuscript or multiple sclerosis, it's Microsoft) signs all three hefty pay checks? And finally, for someone whose stock in trade is supposedly a humorous approach to current events, he's just not naturally funny, which might explain why there's now some cohort off camera chortling every time Keith tries to make a funny. The new version of a laugh track, a disembodied Ed McMahon.

[mattsmom]

I stopped watching KO about the same time I stopped going to the Huffington Post. (You bravely go where I know I won't feel welcome.)

Hopefully, I'll be able to return to HPost after the primary is over. KO's show, not so much.

I always thought KO was a libertarian, or most probably just a contrarian. Because he was the only MSM anchor telling the truth about Bush, it lulled us into thinking he was a progressive. I think he just likes being the anti-OReilly.

[zeppo]

I agree this is pretty low on the outrage scale. KO is about the only figure that has any sort of exposure in the MSM that has the balls to say some of the stuff he does. Yeah, everyone is eventually going to say something that pisses someone else off. One of my best friends says some things that really aggravate me at times, but she is still my friend.

KO is about the only place you can go to see John Dean or Jonathan Turley eviscerate the Bush administration and not even hid their contempt while doing it. KO's "special comments", even though they are many times rather high on the "self aggrandizement" scale, still hits the mark dead on when it comes to the abuses of the lawless Bush administration.

Never watching KO because of a statement like this discussion is about seems to me a bit like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Each to his own, I guess. Personally, I think this post was a bit of an overreaction to a relatively (compared to the Big Freakin' Outrages being foisted upon us on a daily basis), but I am sure not going to stop coming here, reading some great stuff or remove Whiskey Fire from my blog list....

[actor212]

Molly, do you find it funny that the same complaints right wingers have been having about Dems are the ones we Hillbots are starting to feel?

And vice versa: the same shit that Obombers like KO SHOULD be flinging at Republicans is being flung at Hilalry and us?

[Gummo]

As Countdown has slipped into All Primaries All The Time mode, it's gotten pretty damn unwatchable, not the least reason being Olbermann's obvious and unprofessional bias in favor of one candidate and his hatred for his chosen candidate's opponent.

Geez, there's nowhere left on TV that you can just get The News, is there?

[Gummo]

As Countdown has slipped into All Primaries All The Time mode, it's gotten pretty damn unwatchable, not the least reason being Olbermann's obvious and unprofessional bias in favor of one candidate and his hatred for his chosen candidate's opponent.

Geez, there's nowhere left on TV that you can just get The News, is there?

[talesoftwokitties]

Right on Molly. I stopped watching MSNBC a few months ago. Crap!

[HumboldtBlue]

it's pretty much just a quick aside, said almost without thinking.

Sure it is.

Posted by: Molly Ivors

Let's see, we have a TV talking head who attempts to use humor and sports metaphors on a regular basis to describe a political campaign, with battle metaphors and fight metaphors sprinkled throughout. One off the cuff comment means he's a goddamned woman-hating bastard who purposefully attacks Senator Clinton because she just happens to walk around with a vagina.

If Olbermann is to be held to this exacting standard, I am really interested in how you're going to explain away Marcotte's deliberate and offensive racism.

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/04/25/i-guess-its-a-jungle-in-here-too-huh/

See, just because you thought Olbermann was being a callous misogynist doesn't mean he was, because by the logic, Marcotte's no better than a shill for the Daughters of the Confederacy.

We could play this silly game all day.

[HumboldtBlue]

sorry, full link ...

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/04/25/i-guess-its-a-jungle-in-here-too-huh/

[Pat Johnson]

I stopped watching KO when he decided to take Hillary to the woodshed with his "special comments" regarding Ferraro. Way over the top! But note:
he has the same talking heads on nightly, the same ones who underscore his point of view. Never do you see someone from an opposing viewpoint with whom he could at least have a disagreement. Hate them I do, but Hannity and O'Reilly do present the someone from the opposition even if they do nothing but excoriate them the entire time. That's their validation for "fair and balanced" I suppose. Perhaps if the ratings over at MSNBC start to slide they may take another look at their pathetic lineup. In the meantime they just continue to appeal to a lot of Obama supporters and the frat house crowd. The females are beginning to desert.

[keta]

Just because most everyone around you has become a shallow, nit-picking, get-outraged-at-everything nincompoop doesn't mean it's proper for you to be one too.

I've never seen a primary season with so much uttered and written about so very, very little. If this is what the internet has brought to elections, then the internet is a fucking anchor, and we're all morons for hangig on as it sinks to the bottom.

[zeppo]

I think KO has been taking Clinton to the woodshed (figuratively, of course) because she has deserved it. I think that the SUPPORTERS of both Obama AND Clinton have been going way too far, going much too much. Winning the primary is one thing, but damaging your party's chances in the fall is another altogether. I wish that everyone who is against the excesses of the lawless Bush adminstration would keep in mind the REAL enemy here. It ain't Clinton, it ain't Obama. It ain't even their over the top supporters. It's Bush. It's Cheney. It's McCain. It's every lying Rethug candidate out there who thinks the country is fine as it is.

But, as outrage seems to be in vogue these days, I don't suppose anyone is going to change their minds. Outrage is a very strong emotion, one that isn't turned off easily.

But if the Dems lose this election in November, I know who I will blame. Every one of us that let this happen.

[Hecate Demetersdatter, Runnymeade Conspirator]

What Molly said.

[Me]

Well, everyone can relax. He just now apologized for it, though he did point out, as I did above, that it's a common political metaphor, though he could have chosen his gender pronouns better.

I stand by my comment that this was pretty weak as outrages go.

[Me]

Oh, and I should add that it speaks fairly well of Olbermann that he even chose to address what amounted to a very little-noticed controversy. Evidently he received a few emails.

[themann1086]

Subconscious sexism, the most prevalent kind. Glad he apologized for it, though.

[brad]

Both the critics and the apologists are right, I think.
KO fucked up bad, his show has degraded into the Obama fanclub newsletter (and I support Obama) at the expense of real news, and I don't give a shit about American idol. I'm disgusted by some of the things Hillary has done in this campaign, but more disgusted by Chris Matthews and David Shuster, and KO is on the same channel, he should know to watch his damn self.
But his show is actually kinda important. He reaches people we on the harder left can't and makes them pliable to our arguments. I've seen it happen in my own family. And he's the one who got Rachel Maddow on MSNBC to begin with, and hasn't shied away from her despite her pointed criticism of Tweety. Shit, she's guest hosted.
And KO apologized the next day. He's named himself a worst person in the world for past errors. Humans fuck up, and the subconscious is a big dirty sponge. I don't blame someone for having some crap in there so long as they accept the mistakes that come with it and try to learn from them.
But, yeah, I have a penis, it's probably easier for me to shrug off. <-- *not snark*
Still, I don't think this makes KO a bad person.

[Molly Ivors]

brad,
I had actually stopped watching some time ago, because of the drift you and Gummo mention: it's all Obama, all the time, and while I have no problem with him critiquing the campaigns and focusing on important issues, there have been times when the lead story was "Hillary: Does She Floss or Not?" I see few comparable critiques of the Obama campaign.

Having said that, it occurs to me that what happened to Olbermann this week is similar to what has happened to both Clinton and Obama repeatedly over the last several months: people focused on a gaffe which may or may not have meant what the speaker intended, but nevertheless revealed some troubling attitudes. I hope he has learned that lesson, too.

[Mike]

What Tbogg said:

The truth is most people don't care if you are offended, they're just placating you so you will shut the fuck up.

So here is a suggestion: stop being obtuse, grow the fuck up and calm the fuck down because you're really annoying the shit out of the rest of us and, in turn, that makes us cranky causing us to use really fucking bad language.

[Dusty59]

Thanks for comment @ 06:58, MI... I'm torn w/ my support, and see validity on both sides just as brad (above) describes.
I'm sick of the Clinton bashing, but some of tactics on both sides raise real questions.

[digitusmedius]

awwww, f'chissakes. Can't anyone speak in metaphor anymore with some school marm getting the knickers all atwist (that's a metaphor, by the way--I don't think people really wear "knickers," which technically is a euphemism borrowed from the Brits, which is a shortened nickname for the British...oh, shit, the hell with it, you win)

[brad]

Part of my willingness to forgive comes from a belief that come the general election his show is going to be very important. He's about the only media big dog I can think of who's not on the Sweet Talk Express, and that's going to matter.
(Which is also why I wish the show would get back to covering news stories and maintain its credibility in the meantime.) Plus, it seems as if KO and Maddow's fortunes are somewhat tied together, and ultimately her success is much more important than his.

[gussie]

Wow. I don't much like Olbermann, and the misogyny aimed at Clinton in this campaign is pretty obvious, but this isn't one of the better moments at Whiskey Fire.

I hate to think what the reaction would be if someone said that Obama 'pounded' Clinton in Maine, or that 'he really stuck it to her' in a debate.