Souls Who Have Redefined Our Roles

You read some strange things in the Washington Post Opinion pages, no doubt. But this really deserves some sort of prize in the WTF? category:

Some of us -- in my case, a political conservative and evangelical Christian -- are getting a queasy feeling when it comes to the presidential campaign of former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, and much of it has to do with his use of faith in this political campaign....

Some of these episodes are by themselves unproblematic; others are more troubling. They are certainly different in degree, and even in kind, from what President Bush, an evangelical Christian, has said.

Ummm... what?

And taken together, they raise a concern: Is Mike Huckabee, a man of extremely impressive political gifts and shrewdness, playing the Jesus card in a way that is unlike anything we have quite seen before?

Why, no. Or to put this another way, are you high, or do you just think everyone else is?

I get that the muckety-mucks in the GOP are worried because Huckabee actually means and believes all this God-bothering bullshit, and they've just been pretending and pandering. That's clear.

But the cynicism of this essay is just way off the charts. After the Huckabee poll surge, I can see why Peter Wehner wants to pretend that his party hasn't been pretending and pandering and dog-whistling and Christ-invoking and code-talking and cross-waving, very goddamn loudly and ostentatiously, for a couple of decades now. Similarly, for private reasons of his own he may someday wish to appear in public dressed in chainmail and a fruit-hat demanding he be worshiped as the Supreme Empress Susan. However, that doesn't place any obligation on anyone to play along with such sports.

That's your modern conservative thinker for you, though, especially of the Bush/Bennett variety. As soon as the immediate past that everyone knows about becomes inconvenient -- pretend it never happened. This is what they call "personal responsibility."

"Is Mike Huckabee, a man of extremely impressive political gifts and shrewdness, playing the Jesus card in a way that is unlike anything we have quite seen before?" Jaysus! It is in fact rather comical.

Comments

[Doug Watts]

I like the Jesus card, actually.

[Doug Watts]

I like the Jesus card. Jesus was the Malcolm X of his generation.

[myiq2xu]

What's remarkable about Huckabee is not what he says but who he is. He doesn't just talk like a Holy-Roller, he is one.

Unlike GOP candiates who talk the talk the talk but don't walk the walk, Huckleberry is an honest-to-goodness foot-washing fundamentalist.

That is what is giving the GOP "establishment" the vapors - one of the lunatics they have been taking for granted for the last 25 years might end up being the nominee to run the asylum.

[Pug]

I'm wondering if Jesus was here today how comfortable he would be with the money-con crowd in the Republican Party?

Would he be hanging with poor folks and prison inmates or those who profess religion but think the most important issues in the world are cutting capital gains taxes and eliminating the inheritance tax?

Jesus would make these folks very uncomfortable with all his crazy talk about poor people.

[bob]

Fuck all republicans with a sandpaper dildo.

[bob]

Fuck all republicans with a sandpaper dildo.

[DrDick]

"I'm wondering if Jesus was here today how comfortable he would be with the money-con crowd in the Republican Party?"

Uh, no. The rich are the one and only group of people he categorically rejected (though he did offer to let them in if they gave all their wealth to the poor). Indeed, he even goes so far as to say that the rich are damned to hell ("He who has enjoyed his rewards in this life shall not enjoy them in the next"). Whore, robbers, tax collectors, lepers, and all other sorts of sinners, deviants, and reprobates were just fine, but no rich people need apply.

[mparker]

Stop it before you start a fire.

[The Jesus]

You said it, man.

[The Jesus]

Nobody fucks with The Jesus!

[LittlePig]

I'm wondering if Jesus was here today how comfortable he would be with the money-con crowd in the Republican Party?

It would be moneychangers at the Temple time, baby! Jesus would break out the whip and start whaling away - but unfortunately the Republicans would just like that part.

[LittlePig]

The rich are the one and only group of people he categorically rejected

Oh, I don't know, he wasn't none too crazy about the hypocrites and Pharisees, either. Between those two classes and the rich, the modern-day Republican party is covered.

For all those Republicans praying for a Second Coming, well, remember you better be careful what you pray for...

[paleblade]

"Uh, no. The rich are the one and only group of people he categorically rejected"

Uh, no. You have no idea what Jesus did or did not reject, since everything written about his life came at least 50 years after his death. You have no idea what he said or believed.

We can understand what the Council of Trent, or King James, wanted to promote - a way to control the masses and take their wealth.

If wealth keeps you from heaven, then no mega-church pastor and no Pope is getting there.

[sdf (Stu)]

If Jesus were around today, I am certain he would be giving interviews to CNN's "What Would Jesus Really Do?" and give answers to their immensely thought provoking questions about for whom he would vote.

[sdf (Stu)]

They are certainly different in degree, and even in kind, from what President Bush, an evangelical Christian, has said.

When Dubya said that Jesus was his favorite political philosopher during that debate in 2000, he understood neither the word "political" nor "philosopher" nor, it seems, "Jesus." On the other hand, he may have known what the word favorite means.

[Interrobang]

Uh, no. You have no idea what Jesus did or did not reject, since everything written about his life came at least 50 years after his death.

That's also assuming that you can actually apply the terms "did/did not reject," "his life" and "his death" to the figure of Jesus in any other way than you'd apply them to, say, Hamlet's father. (I'm a bit of a hard-liner and tend to be of the latter school of thought, since the corroborating evidence from contemporary sources is slim to nil, and Mesopotamia has produced a plethora of "dying god" figures.)

In other words, I think Huckabee is crazy like a double-double.*

_________
*Quaint Soviet Canuckistani term for a coffee with two creams, two sugars.

[Thomas Foolery]

Uh, no. The rich are the one and only group of people he categorically rejected

Well, he didn't seem to be all that keen on people who were skeptical of his crazy story either:

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

Matthew 12:30 - He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.

Luke 19:27 - But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them-bring them here and kill them in front of me.

Matthew 10:33 - But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

Mark 3:29 - But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.

Matthew 10:34 - Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Luke 14:26 - If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters–yes, even his own life–he cannot be my disciple.

But hey, let's just keep wanking over how Jesus was the ur-liberal and if only he were here, man, he'd totally kick some Republican ass!

Personally, if we're going to waste time on hypotheticals over someone who never existed, I think we should debate who would win in a fight between Hellboy and Wolverine.

[Jenna's Bush]

If wealth keeps you from heaven, then no mega-church pastor and no Pope is getting there.

Umm, no shit.

[Ivan]

Remedial Christian theology: Wealth doesn't keep you from salvation; *attachment* to wealth keeps you from salvation.

If you actually read the story about the wealthy man and salvation (the one with the "eye of the needle" line), you find out that the problem was not that the guy was wealthy but that he was unwilling to sacrifice his wealth in exchange for his soul (ergo, "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven").

This is of a piece with other teachings, such as the oft misquoted Timothy ("the *love* of money is the root of all evil", emphasis mine).

This teaching is not about wealth.

It is about greed.

[Mnemosyne]

Oh, goody, my favorite useless anti-Jesus argument has raised its head again.

Look, guys, if you base your belief or disbelief in a religion on whether or not the guy who founded it actually existed, I guess you'd better start sending all of your money to the Church of Scientology, because it's absolutely indisputable that L. Ron Hubbard existed.

Heck, we can run down a whole list:

Judaism: not valid, Moses never existed, and certainly never escaped from Egypt

Islam: completely valid; we have tons of evidence that Mohammed existed and even know where he's buried.

Hinduism: not valid; no idea who founded it

Buddhism: possibly valid, we know where his grave is and some supporting evidence that he existed.

Mormonism: completely valid; we have a full history of Joseph Smith and know without a doubt that he existed.

And yet somehow I have a feeling that despite your argument that Christianity isn't valid simply because Jesus didn't exist, you're not running out to get some magic underwear from your local Mormon church even though Joseph Smith did indisputably exist.

The "but Jesus didn't exist!" card ain't exactly the winning hand you think it is.

[td]

Write P Wehner directly at his thinking-tank and see what he says:

pwehner@eppc.org

[Flaming Sword]

Indeed, the argument the Post clearly makes is that the past 20 years of waving the Jesus flag weren't scary because, unlike Huckabee, they didn't really mean it.

[Raenelle]

Any religion or philosophy or spiritual path that takes moral issue with homosexuality but has no problem with torture is, in my humble opinion, full of shit.

These people think they need a religion to tell them what's moral. Are they saying they have no internal sense of right or wrong? Or merely that they've never looked for it? Either way, ick, ick, ick.

[actor212]

"Which philosopher has had the most impact on your thinking"

Bush: "Jesus, because he lives in my heart."

And this jackass is just *now* getting scared????

[actor212]

Mnemo,

One responder mentioned (after listing a few dozen quotes from the Man) that Jesus might not have existed.

I don't think a blanket indictment is in order there.

There's very little non-Biblical historical evidence for the existence of Jesus (some Roman texts, particularly Suetonius and Tacitus, are examples of reasonably contemporary texts that reference a Judean who likely was Jesus as we know Him)

However, it's also not likely that Jesus was a mass-hypnotic apparition that twelve angry men (and one angry woman) could have conjured up simultaneously and in such agreed upon detail.

Me, I prefer to believe in Jesus' teachings as confirmed from more than one Gospel, allowing for the Council of Nicea's interference (nevermind every other Papal bull since) than in the Man Himself.

[borehole]

Well, Mnemosyne, I guess the difference there would be, the whole Christian religion falls apart if Jesus wasn't an actual, physical person, y'know, God given flesh and whatnot.

Never understood the intellectual snobbishness on my side of the aisle. I'm way too dumb to make sense of all this gobbledegook.

Occam's Razor: a dimbulb's best friend.

p.s. Mr. Foolery: Unless Hellboy has some kind of anti-healing ray or Adamantium-thinner, The 'Rine takes it. I mean, duh.

[Gary Ruppert]

the most important issues in the world are cutting capital gains taxes and eliminating the inheritance tax?

The fact is, these are very important issues. They keep hard working people from freedom and confiscation, and allow a generation to benefit the next, which is the American Way. To defend these immoral practices is to wage class warfare.

[W Action]

I've always seen Huckabee as the true evangelical candidate, and was puzzled why televangelist endorsements were going to guys who are proven phoneys, hypocrites and Bible know-nothings. (Romney believes the Bible is WRONG, but that hasn't prevented him from picking up "Christian" endorsements.) Unless Robertson and Dobson aren't really, you know, serious about their moral views.

There's reason to want Huckabee to be the nominee so that the danger of theocracy can be quaashed for this generation. On the other hand, I think that you can never underestimate the willingness of GOoPers to put aside petty differences like religious belief in order to continue their surge toward world domination. Be careful what you wish for. So I continue to think Guiliani is unelectable and needs to be the candidate.

[LibVet]

What scares the Republicans is this - if Huckabee gets the nomination they will be permanently marked as the party that ran a televangelist for President.

This will alienate voters for years to come.

[Davis X. Machina]

To defend these immoral practices is to wage class warfare.

There is in any kind of warfare an inherent right of self-defense, and you should thank God every day the poor haven't decided to exercise it with pitchforks and torches.

[Supreme Empress Susan]

Leave me out of it.

[TS]

The 'Thugs spent over twenty years flirting with and teasing people like Robertson, Falwell, Hagee, Wildmon and Dobson.

Real soon, baby, they told the christofascists; oooh, yeah -- repealing Rove v. Wade; abortion made a death-penalty offense; tighter borders; a foreign policy designed to help bring about the End Times as foretold... mandatory prayer in public schools; an end to "science" education; 'Family Values' enshrined in law...uh-huh; are you hot now, lover? Yeah...

After all this time, and the fake-Xtian codpiece presidency of Lil' Boots, why is anyone surprised that the christian Right wouldn't feel it was their right to obtain release by forcing themselves on the GOP?

Now that they really get one of their own as a potential candidate, they're throwing their weight around to show the 'Thugs they can, that the GOP had better pay attention, stop making them ache for power, and give them the America they want.

And, who knows? They may get it.

[spencer]

Look, guys, if you base your belief or disbelief in a religion on whether or not the guy who founded it actually existed, I guess you'd better start sending all of your money to the Church of Scientology, because it's absolutely indisputable that L. Ron Hubbard existed.

Um, well, if a church expects its membership to believe in the literal resurrection of Jesus, then belief in his actual existence is kind of a prerequisite.

If Jesus never existed, that would not necessarily invalidate the teachings that are attributed to him (other than the ones that referred to his divinity, etc). But it would remove at least one leg of Christian theology, one that Christians tend to consider central to their religion.

And your refutation rests on a shaky logical foundation to begin with. Proving that Jesus did not exist would hypothetically prove that at least some flavors of Christianity are wrong, because their theology is predicated on his actual historical existence. Proving he did exist, on the other hand, would not actually prove anything else. Knowing he existed would not give us any insight as to whether or not he actually said any of the things attributed to him, or whether he actually was the son of God.

That, of course, goes for Smith and Hubbard as well.

[spencer]

I see someone else beat me to it. Oh well.

[Veritas78]

Unearned income should be taxed at exactly the same rate as earned income.

Income is income, regardless of its source.

[Silver]

The longer I live and the more that I experience, the more I realize that we need to actively work to get rid of the most destructive force on the planet: religion.

Think about it: if there is a "God", he, she or it is probably pretty upset that the myriad visions of what he, she or it wants from us has caused so much misery, mayhem and death in this world. I'm thinking that he, she or it would much prefer that we simply abandon "religion" for a few centuries, at least until the destructive traditions and differences can be lost and forgotten and perhaps some new, unified vision (no pressure, mind you) can be formed (or not).

As it stands now, the military- industrial complex is force feeding us fear and creating "Isalmofascism" out of whole cloth, just as a replacement for the lost profits (no pun intended) of the cold war. Until we throw off the yoke of religion, worldwide, we'll be manipulated like this and civilized countries will repeatedly be reduced to nothing more than mobs.

So, for the sake of the baby Jesus (or whomever), abandon this bullshit and recognize that EVERY religion in this world is an invention of seriously flawed humans, whose patterns of mental and spiritual damage we ought not to be replicating within ourselves.

This will be a massively difficult goal to accomplish, more so than even the eradication of slavery, but it must be done if we are ever to evolve into free, enlightened creatures.

Happy holidays, one and all.

[MasterD]

I have the Jesus card. Came in the latest pack.

All I need now is the Peter and Judas cards and I'll have a full set!

---

[Ken Houghton]

"They are certainly different in degree, and even in kind, from what President Bush, an evangelical Christian, has said."

The news here is that GWB is an "evangelical Christian," despite that his actual church attendance in the past six-plus years is significantly less than mine (if one counts synagogues as "churches"; Peter Wehner's Mileage May Vary*). And it's not as if he's been on a Mission, or even on a spiritual quest to help his father get elected president.**

When did "being an Evangelical Christian" become as easy as being the fifteenth or sixteenth man to stand up and say "I am Spartacus"?

*I hope it wouldn't.
**Though, credit where due, he has been making his father's time as President look better.

[Righteous Bubba]

I am pleased that Wehner and some sort of dog metaphor are in close proximity.

[Madvillainy]

The Jesus card has its limits. You can't fill an inside straight with it, for example.

[Joseph]

One man's domestic terrorist act is another man's confrontation with the moneychangers. Jesus would be in GTMO so fast the disciples would call it ascension into heaven.

[whaleshaman]

Shouldn't it be "Teh Jesus Card"?

[pluky]

"The Five Gospels" is a new (1993) translation of the four canonical gospels plus Thomas based on the collective opinion of a panel of over 100 experts (Fellows of "The Jesus Seminar" as they call themselves). The translation is a "red letter" edition with a twist. "The Jesus Seminar has kept red for those words that were most probably spoken by Jesus in a form close to the one preserved for us." The quotations shade from pink, through gray, to bold black for "words given to Jesus to speak . . . and are therefore inauthentic."

[Jerseymern]

Hey Dr Dick, is that you from the AOL trivia rooms? It is I, Jersey

[Thers]

Now, now, all.

This is Christmas Eve, when we should all be tolerant and peaceful. Is now really an appropriate time to be discussing such a controversial and divisive issue as the birth of Christ?

[John]

Who says that Huckabee "really" believes in all that holy-roller crap? What makes him any more convincingly Christian than any of the other con-men who sell us the neocon death policies under the cover of Jesus? Huckabee quacks like every other duck; don't glorify his unprincipled positions with the label "Christian."

[John]

Who says that Huckabee "really" believes in all that holy-roller crap? What makes him any more convincingly Christian than any of the other con-men who sell us the neocon death policies under the cover of Jesus? Huckabee quacks like every other duck; don't glorify his unprincipled positions with the label "Christian."

[actor212]

Is now really an appropriate time to be discussing such a controversial and divisive issue as the birth of Christ?

Posted by: Thers

He's right. Let's move onto something less sticky:

Should Mary have aborted her illegitimate little bastard?