Next Time You Get Sick You'll Know -- You Might Even See

Wingnuttia is "fact-checking" again, hooray. This time we go from Insty to Steyn to, naturally enough, some Freeper. And all the idiots start crowing about Citizen Journalism and so forth, blah blah blah world without end.

[UPDATE: A good example:

A Freeper took the trouble to investigate the 12-year-old who gave the Democrats' weekly radio address last week, and whose family ostensibly is too poor to pay for medical insurance, and therefore wants to use your money instead. The results are hilarious.

I'll say! Carry on...]

This is one of the stories they're sniveling about; here's the other. And the results of the freepy investigations?

Graeme Frost, who gave the democrat rebuttal to George Bush’s reasons for vetoing the SCHIP Bill, is a middle school student at the exclusive$20,000 per year Park School in Baltimore, MD.

Graeme was in a severe car accident three years ago, and received care paid for by the government program known as SCHIP-(State Children's Health Insurance Program)

"I was in a coma for a week and couldn't eat or stand up or even talk. My sister was even worse," Graeme wrote. "My parents work really hard and always make sure my sister and I have everything we need, but we can't afford private health insurance." [their emphasis]

His sister Gemma, also severely injured in the accident, attended the same school prior to the accident meaning the family was able to come up with nearly $40,000 per year for tuition for these 2 grade schoolers.

Wow, that sure sounds like a lot of money. Especially when we read down a bit and find out that the family's income is only $45,000. Presumably the Frosts are making the remaining $5,000 go a long way in meeting their remaining expenses.

Or not. The always eagle-eyed Don Surber speculates "they  may be subsidized." Ya think? Hmmm, could be. After all, the freeper's iron-clad proof that they're paying 40K a year for private school tuition contains a link to the school's payment information page, which does indeed explain what tuition costs... and which also explains their financial assistance program:

Park enrolls students based on their talents and capabilities. Families who are unable to meet the full cost of tuition may apply for the Financial Assistance Program, which supplements tuition payments. Financial assistance does not need to be repaid.

In 2007, 18% of Park students in grades 1-12 received over $2 million in financial assistance that ranged from $1,000 per year to full tuition. Tuition remission for children of our faculty brings that total to 25% of the student body.

Because each family's situation is unique, it is impossible to predict the amount of funding awarded based solely on income. For example, the number of children attending tuition-charging institutions is an important factor. As a guide, families with incomes up to $160,000 received financial assistance during this past school year.

If the school is giving assistance to families making $160K, they are offering pretty substantial assistance to those making $45K. I'm just guessing here, but it sure does seem plausible!

Adding to the fun, the freep includes this nugget:

Confirmation both attended Park found here using edit-"find on this page"-Gemma. It will take you to an article in the schools newspaper about a fundraiser for Gemma class of 16, and Graeme class of 13.

Needing a fundraiser thrown for them sure is good evidence of their impressive wealth. And it sure is classy to see this evidence of a personal tragedy introduced as evidence against them.

Moving on.

What the article does not mention is that Halsey Frost has owned his own company "Frostworks",since this marriage announcement in the NY Times in 1992 so he chooses to not give himself insurance. He also employed his wife as "bookkeeper and operations management" prior to her recent 2007 hire at the "medical publishing firm". As her employer, he apparently denied her health insurance as well.

Maybe because it was too expensive?

His company, Frostworks, is located at 3701 E BALTIMORE ST. A building that was purchased for $160,000 in 1999. The buildings owner is listed as DIVERSIFIED INDUSTRIAL DESIGN CENTER, LLC whose mailing address is listed as 104 S Collington Ave which is the Frost's home.

Omigod! So? Is the implication here that he paid $160K out of pocket for his business property? Perhaps he had this wacky thing known as "financing," and that he's able to pay the nut for the financing out of the proceeds of his business, and then after he's paid all his other business expenses, he takes home a modest personal income? SHOCKING behavior, I tell you. But wait, it gets worse:

The current market value of their improved 3,040 SF home at 104 S Collington Ave is unknown but 113 S COLLINGTON AVE, also an end unit, sold for $485,000 this past March and it was only 2,060 SF. A photo taken in the family's kitchen shows what appears to be a recent remodeling job with granite counter tops and glass front cabinets

My Lord! Not glass-front cabinets! What a fop! Or, the guy's a woodworker who owns his own woodworking business, who probably did the work himself using materials he was able to get himself at a very reasonable price?

The upshot is that this is a guy with a family of 6: is it a mystery why he wants to own a 3,000-ft house? is it wrong of him to drive, gasp, an SUV (for 4 kids and a mom and dad)? And to do all this on $45K -- sounds like he' and his wife are pretty hard working, actually, paying their own way -- until their kids get into a horrible car accident and need incredibly expensive medical care.

And what does the freeper say about him?

One has to wonder that if time and money can be found to remodel a home, send kids to exclusive private schools, purchase commercial property and run your own business... maybe money can be found for other things...maybe Dad should drop his woodworking hobby and get a real job that offers health insurance rather than making people like me (also with 4 kids in a 600sf smaller house and tuition $16,000 less per kid and no commercial property ownership) pay for it in my taxes.

That's the spirit! People who own their own small businesses are freeloaders. And our pal Surber?

This business of “affordable insurance” is socialistic. The Frosts found an “affordable” business building and an “affordable” 3,000-square foot house and an “affordable” private school. Why couldn’t these yuppies afford to cover their own damned kids?

Because healthcare is hellishly expensive. And yes, guys who own their own small businesses and clear 45K are "yuppies." Don Surber is quite the specimen. And then we have this:

$1200 per month for a family of 6 in Baltimore. Really? What are they smoking?

A check of a quote engine for zip code 21250 (Baltimore) finds a plan for $641 with a $0 deductible and $20 doc copays.

Adding a deductible of $750 (does not apply to doc visits) drops the premium to $452. That's almost a third of the price quoted in the article. Doesn't anyone bother to check the facts?

Ah, a quote engine. One that presumably tells us everything about the family and their existing medical conditions that might affect what they would pay for health insurance. Amazing what you can find out online these days. Yes, clearly the Frosts are drug abusers. That's a perfectly reasonable inference.

There's something pretty mean-spirited about the wingnut Citizen Journalists here: they don't know a thing about this family, really, but are trying to portray them as "yuppie" freeloaders while screeching their jackass heads off about "socialism."

The point is, healthcare costs can make it impossible for hardworking middle class families to have a decent life. This is a problem. SCHIP expansion would help to solve it at a moderate cost.

Greater Wingnuttia may think they've struck another blow for Freedom, or whatever, but they're pretty far out there on this. They just look like a pack of assholes.

Comments

[mattsmom]

Hey, I see this story has already made it to Ezra's blog as a comment. It's suprising how quickly that happened.

[mattsmom]

Oops! It was Matthew Y - I should go back to lurking.

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/10/class_warfare.php

[SteveB]

If they completely failed at poking any holes in Graeme Frost's story, they certainly have succeded in scaring quite a few folks away from providing their children for "Democrat' responses to the President's speeches.

In other words, "Hey, nice improved 3,040 SF home with granite countertops at 104 S Collington Ave ya got here, be a shame if anything happened to it."

With these guys, it's never really about winning the argument, it's about intimidating people into silence.

[Jake T. Snake]

The real reson the screeching from the right is becoming so strident just now is that finally corporate america is even climbing on board the socialized medicine train. The costs are breaking them. Witness the recent negotiations of GM with their union membership focusing on among other items the cost of medical benefits, not only to current employees, but retirees.

I can also speak to this at a personal level. I sign the checks at the human service agency I work at. We have 40 employees and this month's agency share of the health insurance premium $16,000 or $192,000 annually, nearly 9% of our operating expenses. The other good news is that we can look forward to another double digit increase this year. That increase is in the neighborhood of 100% in the last 7 years for those of you who are keeping track. Finally, it seems the sheep are becoming tired of being shorn and may demand some degree of accountability.

Raise my taxes, go ahead, it will be less expensive, it couldn't be any more.

[BigHank53]

Yeah, I take a lot of political advice from people who devote a lot of time and effort to kicking black 12-year-olds...way to go, blogosphere!

[unstoked]

“icwhatudo” at Free Republic, however, showed rather more curiosity than the professional reporter paid to investigate the story and did a bit of Googling. Mr Frost, the “woodworker”, owns his own design company and the commercial property it operates from, part of which space he also rents out; they have a 3,000-sq-ft home on a street where a 2,000-sq-ft home recently sold for half a million dollars; he was able to afford to send two children simultaneously to a $20,000-a-year private school; his father and grandfather were successful New York designers and architects; etc. This is apparently the new definition of “working families”.

I’m glad little Graham and his family were able to get help, and I hope he reaches full rehabilitation. But perhaps the Democrats ought to take more care in the spokespeople they choose, if they wish to tug at our heartstrings.

http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=9945

[Thers]

A protein wisdom link in my comments section. What fun.

[Thers]

Yeah, I take a lot of political advice from people who devote a lot of time and effort to kicking black 12-year-olds...way to go, blogosphere!

Beg pardon?

[jpe]

A protein wisdom link in my comments section. What fun.

It really doesn't feel right, though, seeing as no one was called a "faggot."

[Thers]

It really doesn't feel right, though, seeing as no one was called a "faggot."

Benn Michaels never called anyone a strikethrough faggot.

[SteveB]

Y'now what, unstoked? In civilized countries, meaning the entire rest of the industrialized world, nobody gives a shit whether you have granite countertops. You've been in a car accident and need care, you get it, by virtue of the fact that you're a human being.

A radical concept, I know, but you might want to think about it.

And since no one else has mentioned "class warfare", I guess I will. Now we're supposed to hate small business owners, at least when their children give the "Democrat" response to Pres. Bush.

I say, from now on, the "Democrat" response to Bush should be given only by children. Sort of levels the playing field.

[unstoked]

I like this quote to:

Insureblog, also demonstrating more journalistic initiative than Mr Hay Brown, checked out that last bit:

A check of a quote engine for zip code 21250 (Baltimore) finds a plan for $641 with a $0 deductible and $20 doc copays.

Adding a deductible of $750 (does not apply to doc visits) drops the premium to $452. That's almost a third of the price quoted in the article. Doesn't anyone bother to check the facts?

But who needs facts when you've got the human-interest angle sewn up?

Bonnie Frost still can't drive down the road where the accident occurred...

Bad things happen to good people, and they cause financial problems and tough choices. But, if this is the face of the "needy" in America, then no-one is not needy. And, if everyone needs assistance from the federal government, so be it. But I don't think I want to drive down the road where Bonnie Frost wants to take us - because at the end of it there are no free-born citizens, just a nation where everyone is a ward of the state.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MDAzYjY5OWVkMmQxZTJmNTZlNDNjZTlhOGU3NjNlZDA=

[Bob]

I love the condescending attitude toward the small business owner:
"...maybe Dad should drop his woodworking hobby and get a real job that offers health insurance..."
I generally shy away from the "imagine if one of us said that" school of arguing, but really, imagine HRC referring to a family's small business as "a hobby" and suggesting it's time to get a "real job"
Methinks wingnuttia might have some fun with that. Me; as someone with a brother, several close relatives, and numerous friends who have made their way in the world by creating small businesses based on something they love doing all I can do is stifle the urge to go postal.

[Grim]

unstoked, you are an idiot. I'm stuck at a job I hate because of the insurance. I have three intellectual properties I could take into production tomorrow if I didn't have to worry about covering my $900 a month in premiums. I'm not free now.

[Tisse]

Wow, Baltimore has got the bargain insurance. I'll make note of that and when I have a kid, I guess the rules here will require I move to a place like that, or get some wingy-approved job with benefits as they see fit, because othewise me and my future offspring deserve to rot, right. Ok. Because, FYI, my private insurance in Brooklyn, NY is $740/month... for just me, a healthy 35-year-old. It's become an impossible (and frankly, ludicrous) situation and I simply can't do it anymore. I canceled last week. How, on what goddamn planet, do these crackpots really not understand or care about this insane costs? How is it ok that for me, a middle-class gal in the big city, to get insurance, it costs almost $9000 a year? Jesus. And now... super!... I am officially a member of the uninsured class.

[Gary Denton]

unstoked is a @#$@#%$ who hates kids and small business owners and worries that eventually everyone will be able to have health care. Is he a Texas GOP congressman?

[Bob]

Unstoked: I especially like the impeccable logic of this sentence in the corner quote you found: "But, if this is the face of the "needy" in America, then no-one is not needy."
That's right, cause as is well established all families in America make 45k a year of less and have catastrophic medical bills.
What idiocy.
Furthermore, no one on the left is arguing about "needy" - the argument is one of basic human dignity, compassion and fairness.

[pseudonymous in nc]

Oh, fuck off and die, unstoked. No, really. Put your well-appointed garage to use with a hose, your car exhaust and some thinking.

Alternatively, let's find out just who the fuck you are, where you live, and how much you pay for health insurance, and see if Magic Quote Engine comes up with a better number. Spiteful shits like you have monopolized the politics of the microscope for too long, and its time they had it pointed at their pimply asses.

[shrimplate]

In the "free market," freepers decide who can afford insurance and how much they need to have.

They also decide what kind of job, housing, and kitchen countertops are appropriate for other families and individuals.

For them it's all about the freedom.

[Thers]

Unstoked, dear, I linked to that.

[Bas-O-Matic]

Let me get this straight. This guy's a cabinet maker, and these geniuses are leering about how nice his cabinets are?

Given that those people basically live in downtown Baltimore, I'd be willing to bet that they bought a a rundown house in a gentrifying neighborhood on the cheap so that Mr. Frost, who is good with his hands, can fix the place up and they can turn the house around for a profit. His business, which is a couple of blocks away in downtown Baltimore, basically comes from all the people fixing up all the old brownstones in the area.

In the meantime, he has to send his kids to school and the public schools in Baltimore don't really seem like the ideal option. So he looks around, and finds that he can send them to a private school using their assistance program.

But given that $45000 dollars, while a decent living all things considered, isn't a whole hell of a lot of money, especially when there are six mouths to feed, after everything's said and done with he just can't make things work with health insurance (when it comes down to it, after the mortgage, food, clothes and all the rest of the expenses of raising a family, even another $600 is no small potatos).

Then the children get into a catasrophic accident, the family is suddenly looking at medical bills it can't pay. They are in such bad straits that the school is doing fundraisers for them. This government program helps them; makes their lives better in a fundamental way.

And these jokers are pissed off about it.

Amazing.

[Steve J.]

Thers,

Thanx for doing this!

[scout]

These people are simply cold hearted cruel.

They don't realize they are one accident away from being this family...and if it happened to them they'd be damn grateful for SCHIP that had no asset test as is the case in the Maryland SCHIP program lest they see all they worked for GONE.

[SteveB]

Let's just cut to the chase:

I support a single-payer government-run health care system where Bill Fucking Gates gets totally free health care, and it's all paid for out of unstoked's taxes.

No, better: unstoked's taxes go into an escrow account, specially set up to pay for Bill Fucking Gates' grandaughter's abortions. All six of them.

[Southern Beale]

It is well-known that facts have a liberal bias.

[pie]

Bad things happen to good people, and they cause financial problems and tough choices.

Cause financial problems for whom?

Tough choices? Like choosing between life and death, living with a disability that might otherwise have been eliminated, going bankrupt and/or losing one's home?

Is that what you mean by tough choices? I know it doesn't affect your little world, unstoked. Don't bother your little head about other people's misfortune. After all, there's no way to fix the problem in a way that would benefit us all, is there.

Is there?

[jwer]

As someone that lives in a 3000+ sq ft house in downtown Baltimore, I can say first-hand that that does not remotely imply wealth. Also, the neighborhood that the Frosts live in has had some of the most dramatic rises in value of any neighborhood in the city over the past 10 years or so. It's also not terrifically safe, a young man was beaten nearly to death during a mugging there in the past year.

[SRM]

Point is, his house, swanky neighborhood, and elite school are more important than his kids health. Sell the house, move to a cheaper neighborhood, get another job like most of the rest of us do, and pay your own way, you socialist bum.

[bleat my little factoids r us bleat]

A Freeper took the trouble to investigate the 12-year-old who gave the Democrats' weekly radio address last week, and whose family ostensibly is too poor to pay for medical insurance, and therefore wants to use your money instead. The results are hilarious.

Don't ya want to get your very own resident freeper fact checkin troll? He can live in your basement, results be hilarious.

[Thers]

Point is, his house, swanky neighborhood, and elite school are more important than his kids health. Sell the house, move to a cheaper neighborhood, get another job like most of the rest of us do, and pay your own way, you socialist bum.

Point is, you lunatics are once more just making stuff up.

[Mary Racine]

If the guy is in the trade, the countertops were probably ones that someone else had taken out when they upgraded.

My husband does home renovations. We have gorgeous stuff in our house, but it's all stuff that someone else decided needed to be replaced.

I thought the Republicans were supposed to be in favor of small businesses?

[David (Austin Tx)]

I thought the Republicans were supposed to be in favor of small businesses?

Oh, they are. They call it "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps".

However, the problem is that the Frosts didn't become fabulously wealthy, so there is obviously a problem with that small business owner.

It all comes down to whether or not you are wealthy.

[Tyro]

Personally, I want the Republicans to highlight a family that did sell their house and small business and get a low-level job at a large company which provides health insurance to ensure that they can pay their child's medical expenses in order to call attention to their independent spirit and tell Americans that this is the example they should be imitating.

[SteveB]

I thought the Republicans were supposed to be in favor of small businesses?

Yeah, well I thought they were in favor of sending your kids to private schools, too, but these principles have to be adjusted from time to time, as necessary, when our President is under attack.

[jpm100]

Other than the fact the school does offer financial aid, what proof is that they they receive anything close to full funding?

I see you've all concluded that as fact based on it merely being possible. Carry on with the 'jumping to conclusions' lectures.

[Ron]

"But I don't think I want to drive down the road where Bonnie Frost wants to take us - because at the end of it there are no free-born citizens, just a nation where everyone is a ward of the state."

Where do you morons learn to talk like this? I don't know what you want because without the civilizing effects of decent government, your sorry objectivist ass wouldn't last a day. Really, your ideal state of nature was abandoned thousands of years ago. It's funny that the people who claim to love their nation the most are the ones who would like to see it stop functioning for the benefit of its citizens.

I mean, fuck, just because the government can protect me from a catastrophe I am in human bondage? A ward? Huh?

[Mike Williamson]

I don't think there's enough info here. Our kids had most of their infant care (to age 5) covered by the State, and Indiana is hardly a socialist model. I can't imagine MD has lesser services.

At the same time, having been born and raised in a country with socialized medicine--and nearly killed by it--I'm willing to start a civil war rather than go there again.

What is needed is for the insurance companies to actually argue prices with the providers. We had 80% coverage on our first child, and when I looked at our share, I called up and started tearing them apart--$45 for a pitcher of water that they filled in the bathroom sink?? $50 for latex gloves?? Get real. Ten minutes later, they agreed to drop our share from $2000 to $600.

It's a shame Anthem didn't do the same thing, save themselves three to four grand, and pass the savings on to me, the customer.

Of course, that would mean working for a living.

Let's not discuss the numerous "insurers" who will happily insure you for less than you pay them. I should start offering that deal myself. As a "small business."

[Thers]

Other than the fact the school does offer financial aid, what proof is that they they receive anything close to full funding?

I'm still baffled as to why you nitwits think it's any of your goddamned business in the first place. But still. The freeper says flat out that they pay $40K, and that remains a staggeringly stupid thing to say.

They're a middle class family who benefits from a good government program, and you want to smear them. Finis.

[Peter Principle]

The really funny thing is that under any other circumstances the freepers et. al. would be holding the Frosts up as conservative role models and demanding that the government throw money at him -- He's a small businessman with a family-owned company! Give that man an estate tax exemption. He sends his kids to private school! Give him a tuition tax credit. The mom stays at home! Give them a bigger child tax credit!

But, because party line decrees that the Frosts must be evil welfare fakers in cahoots with the evil Goldstein, um, I mean, the Democrats, so they have become.

These guys make the sheep from Animal Farm look like free thinkers.

[Tyro]

I'm willing to start a civil war rather than go there again.

I assume you'll be refusing any Medicare benefits when you retire. It's not quite starting a civil war, but it would be a demonstration of your willingness to stand on principle.

[Chris Tucker]

I used to live in Baltimore, about 15 or so years ago.

If I were a freeper, letting all his freeper buddies know where this child lives, you should be aware that firearm ownership inside the city limits of Baltimore is really not all that regulated. Just about any honest, law-abiding individual can own just about any non-full auto firearms he/she desires.

And in some neighborhoods, you really DO want to have some firepower.

So, dear freepers, do try and pull some stupid shit at this childs home.

But don't be TOO greatly surprised if the outcome isn't quite what you expected.

[w3]

The "problem here" is not that the Frosts own their own business or send their kids to private school...

the "problem here" is that they demand the taxpayers to pay for their medical insurance WHILE they enjoy the life of the upper middle class.

If nothing else, the Democrats have handed to Bush on a silver platter exactly his point: that the purpose of SCHIP is to cover people who cannot afford health insurance for their children but who do not qualify for medicare; not to subsidize an upper middle class lifestyle while you pass off your responsibilities to the taxpayer. In the alternate universe called reality, real democrats would repudiate this kind of abuse of the system.

IF you send your kids to private school - subsidized or not; if you have a lavish home and expensive cars and own capital which you partially rent out, why are you asking the taxpayers to pay for your insurance? And WHY are the democrats such as those in this forum insisting on backing this kind of abuse? If you weren't so blind to your partisan hatred of conservatives you would actually find common ground and agree that the Frosts are not the people SCHIP was designed to assist.

How many truly poor people cannot get adequate care because people like the Frosts game the system while they are enabled by "democrats" such as those in this forum?

Pathetic.

[Tyro]

45k/yr is "upper middle class"?

Trust me, I know from upper middle class, and writing from the comfort of my small, 1-bedroom apartment, I can clearly tell you that this is not upper middle class!

w3, you are missing the precisely point that middle class small business owners with middling incomes find the cost of health coverage extraordinarily prohibitive.

This, of course, was the conservatives' own doing-- they thought that instead of national health care, HMOs would make coverage less expensive. That era came to an end, and being self-employed on $45k/yr, you're not going to be able to pay the insurance premiums required for a family of 4 (or 6, for that matter). But perhaps you can explain how to do it.

[Karen]

I have to agree with Chris Tucker that the Frosts seem to be gaming the system. He can manipulate the amount of income he shows because he owns his own business. John Edwards did something similar by incorporating his law practice and paying himself dividends so as to avoid the Medicare taxes on most of his earnings.

Either Mr. Frost hardly works at all or he is manipulating his earnings.

[melonhead]

unfortunately, the cabinetmaker and his wife probably voted for bush---twice.

[Thers]

IF you send your kids to private school - subsidized or not; if you have a lavish home and expensive cars and own capital which you partially rent out, why are you asking the taxpayers to pay for your insurance? And WHY are the democrats such as those in this forum insisting on backing this kind of abuse?

Becase it isn't abuse, and you're making up all that stuff about their "lavish lifestyle," which you really don't know anything about.

SCHIP works.

[Thers]

I have to agree with Chris Tucker that the Frosts seem to be gaming the system.

First of all, you can't read. Second of all, that's slander -- you're accusing someone of multiple felonies based upon some shit yo read at Free Repblic that doesn't even make sense on its face. You people are psychotic.

[SteveB]

Earth to wingnuts: in countries that have single-payer, like Canada, Britain and France, even rich folks get free health care. Not just some scraping-by self-employed cabinet maker, but genuinely wealthy people.

And nobody gives a shit, because that's part of the deal. You don't see people in France, for example, demonstrating against the free health care provided to the well-off, because the benefits of universal health care outweigh the irksome fact that some people who could well afford to pay for their own care get it at taxpayer expense.

And to the folks on my side of this debate: our main point here shouldn't be that the Frosts are "poor enough" to deserve gov't paid health care; our point should be that EVERYONE deserves free health care. I recognize that's not what SCHIP provides, but still, let's try to think at least one step ahead, shall we?

[Jake T. Snake]

Still missing the big picture. Double digit increases in health care premiums are eating both individuals and businesses alive. You can argue ideology all you like, but at the end of the day when large corporations climb on board for a socialized health care system and they will, this will be a purely dollars and cents decision. I would like to think our government cares about what the people need, but I am not that deluded.

Will the government do a good job? I doubt they could do much worse if you look at our current life expectancy, infant mortality rates etc., they are not impressive. I just know that Social Security and Medicare seem to work and are models of efficiency i.e. Social Security operates on a 4% administrative overhead, far below the normal 10-15% in most organizations.

I would like to purchase a government sponsored health insurance plan. Since the free market is the ultimate arbiter and god of the right, why then do I not have that choice? If you are so sure of its inadequacies and failures, then let it compete with private insurers in the almighty free market.

Whatever system we end up with will I am sure look a good deal like the current medicare system where those who want supplemental insurance are free to purchase it at a reasonable price.

[M_McLuhan]

I think that, in a perfect world, conservatives would have quite obviously overplayed their hand with this one. By all accounts, the Frosts are just what they say they are: small-business owners struggling to make ends meet and a better life for their children (Hey, if I could score free tuiton for my kids at a private school, I would in a heartbeat.)

Unfortunately, I think w3 does make an important point. People aren't going to care about the reality of the situation, only the appearance. People will see granite counter tops and glass-front cabinets and SUVs, and not for a minute think that maybe the Frosts didn't pay retail for these amenities, but rather used their own handywork and bargain-hunting. People will hear "private school" and stop listening right there, subsidies be damned.

Which means that, while the frosts are a perfect example of where programs like SCHIP can make such a difference, they were also a poor choice to be spokespersons for it, simply because they appear to be doing so well for themselves. So, while the freepers may be throwing so much, ahem, stuff, at the wall, the Democrats unfortunately played right into their hands with this one and it is very likely to stick.